Talk:(availability)/Archives/01

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This is a talk about linking releases (Book, Video, etc.).


Before we all spend much time on adding all the data into the wiki we should talk about the format of listings, before someone has to change everything later. Especially with well-known movies like Mononoke, Nausicaa, etc. we'll get into trouble linking all the releases.

  1. We really should use piped links, then we can define a name for the link (which is shown on the site) and for sure the url where the link should point to :). The format is very easy, instead of [[URL]] (URL) we use [[URL|Name]] (Name).
  2. For one list entry, do we want to include the DVD-Region (2, 3, 4, ...) and System (PAL, NTSC, SECAM) in the link's name?
  3. For each list entry, do we want to include the original name of the release in the link's name?
  4. How do we name the sites?

I've made an example listing at Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (video). Please do not modify that site, if you want to contribute your idea, please edit (reply to) this site and use 

*~~~~: your text here

this will create an unordered list and insert your name and time & date. Thank you! An3k 00:17, 28 April 2008 (CDT)



I've probably done the most work on a single title's "Availability" section... check the Spirited Away availability section for the way I jumped in. One thing that might be cleaned up is to remove the title from the link name (not the URL) to make it a bit easier to read... I believe Lawrence did mention that in a discussion somewhere. I might give that a go tonight and see how it looks.
But just to address your points specifically:
  1. Piped links definitely can enhance readibility.
  2. Look at my examples for Spirited Away; I think I didn't bother with Region or System as that was a characteristic of the medium, not an inherent property of the title.
  3. There is a space in the Infobox template to put the original language name for a title; I'd use that in preference to using non-English in the link name.
  4. I believe the approach to naming the actual wiki pages (URL) is to always use the title as a prefix, followed in parentheses by the subsection e.g. "Nausicaa (Availability)" or "Nausicaa (DVD - Japanese boxset)".


  • LLin 01:10, 28 April 2008 (CDT):
1) Looks good, using the native language title makes sense since the page name indicates the film
2) No, it's listed in the individual pages and doesn't add much utility to the list
3) I like the look and the format breakdown per language, as Mrgazpacho mentions I'd also like to keep away from non-English links; but since it's piped and just a description I think it'll be ok.
4) Referring to the page itself? Keeping the lowercase style "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (video)" is my preference as the film infoboxes are built that way.


  • an3k 02:17, 28 April 2008 (CDT):
in reply to Mrgazpacho:
2) Yes, checked the Whisper of the Heart (video) listing but here with nausicaa i cannot define the sites (URL) with only the dubs on the disc, i have to include the region too but i think that this is something that shouldn't be on the listing/in the url!
3) Thanks, good to know ;)
4) Yes, that will work for 90% of all releases, but again not for Nausicaa if i don't want to add a numbering or something to the URL.
in reply to LLin:
3) I like and hate it :) I like it since you can list all e.g. japanese dvds very fast but i hate it cause it let the list look a bit empty (so much whitespace).
4) Hehe, yes ;) I misspelled it. I meant the URL, like .../wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki. I thought about including the country where the media is released. Ok, lowercase!
1) I also noticed that we use Books, Soundtracks but only Video. Since we also have a category 'Multimedia' i think we should change Books / Soundtracks to Book / Soundtrack (Multimedias doesn't look good ^^). No templates has to be edited, only some links.
2) What about listing the releases per medium (DVD, VCD, VHS, ...) and then per language? This wouldn't spread the list like now (Nausicaa (video))
Currently (wiki and old website) releases are listed per language (99%) and country (1%). The best thing is to list them per language (dubs) so visitors can easily see which releases to buy for good understanding but whats about the additional dubs on most of the discs (especially mononoke jap. dvd release with more than four dubs)? Should we list them more than once? This would help finding all releases in e.g. french or german language but could spam the list with dublicate entries?!
Sorry for my english ;)
  • LLin 10:59, 28 April 2008 (CDT):
(Category names) - I waffled for awhile (pre-launch) on the book/video/cd titling, but now I believe the way to go is:
  • Lowercase category name with sensible plurals
The plural form of Multimedia is just Multimedia so no need to force a change for the sake of a single 's' ^_^
I'll make the necessary updates after finishing this message
As for the video listing page sorting by the primary language is ok as all dubs are listed on the individual entries and it'd make the page too complicated.
Language/Format vs. Format/Language - Go ahead and try a format/language listing, I think it'll look better with reduced vertical spacing.
URL vs Display - The URL's primary goal is conveyance of all necessary details in a single string. As such it'll be more complicated than the listing display as the display has the page and headers to provide additional context. Sample entry:
URL - Kaze_no_Tani_no_Naushika_Japan_DVD_(Regular_Edition)
Display - 風の谷のナウシカ (Kaze no Tani no Naushika) / Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (Regular Edition)
There's a little tweaking to be done, but I like the display breakdown of "Native title (phonetics) / English translation (Edition)"
The use of phonetics is only necessary for non-Latin languages like Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Cyrillic/etc
As a primarily English site URLs should use English titles. I recommend using Mrgazpacho's breakdown of "English translation (Country Format - Edition)" which would make "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (Japan DVD - Regular Edition)"
  • LLin 13:16, 29 April 2008 (CDT): your text here
The tweaks I wrote about earlier are now displayed on Laputa: Castle in the Sky (videos). I added a country and/or edition modifier to the display as it's impossible to tell say, the Australian or UK releases apart since they use the exact same title.
Also note the country name changes, should be "UK" and "USA".
Question about the "Contact Disney" page. I'm doing the updates for "Only Yesterday" and for now on the USA DVD page I have the link to the web site for contacting Disney. When I port that contact page over, where will it go on the Wiki site?
Probably under the (yet-to-be-created) Disney-Tokuma Deal page. --Mrgazpacho 22:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Books

The video section is shaping up nicely so I'd like to open a discussion on books (soundtrack in another section) to solidify naming conventions.

Two schemes are in place, one I'll call "natural title" as seen on Porco Rosso (books) and "fixed title" as shown on Spirited Away (books). The latter makes more sense in terms of URL comprehension and works great for books dedicated to a single film but doesn't address multi-film compilations like the Archives of Studio Ghibli or sheet music.

I propose:

  • Fixed titles for singular film-based works (art of, film comics, etc)
  • Natural titles for everything else with (book) appended to the end (not so sure about that last bit)

Thoughts?

--LLin 15:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


It'd be great if individual items used the "natural" title - which after all is most likely to turn up in a search. Possibly even redirecting to a "fixed" URL, but that seems like a lot of hassle. Given that we have Categories, and section pages for each format, I don't really see a need to categorise using URL, although I can see that it would make scripting changes easier, which won't affect the majority of us...

I just went with (stole) (^_^);; the Whisper of the Heart (books) page as a template when I built the Porco Rosso (books) page. I like the "natural" titles too but I can change it to whatever you guys come up with.

  • --LLin 13:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Natural titles sounds like a plan. I believe all book titles have been translated into English (at least unofficially) which is what'll be used for the title. The original title field should use the video-style "native (phonetic)" titling for non-Latin languages.

  • Couple of questions from your newbie admin. m(_ _)m I've been deleting some duplicate Porco Rosso book pages and I'm down to the last two dupes I'd like to delete. Both of them have an edit history. I take it I just copy those edits (they're both easy ones) to the surviving pages and then delete the dupes? The second Q is about English titles that start with "The". I've been putting the "The" at the end of the URL with a comma, and adding a display string to display the title in the usual way. My thought is we may end up with a lot of book titles that'll show up on the book page under "T" because of the leading "The". Thoughts?
    --Eishagishi 23:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    I don't even think copying the edits would be necessasry if the page really is a duplicate... I doubt we're so worried about vandalism just yet.
    As for names and sorting, we could enforce a strict standard of naming URLs using ", The" or ", A" (etc.) where necessary. Does MediaWiki allow a differet "Display Name" for a page? Mrgazpacho 03:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  • --LLin 05:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC) I believe this meta help page explains the sorting of categories. It's late so I'm having a hard time understanding it all but I think this is what we're looking for. --LLin 05:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Sorry I haven't gotten back to here in a while. I'm really new at wiki stuff so I'm not too good at terminology. When I wrote "Display Name" I guess I meant "piped link" as the way to a cleaner looking display of the link to a page.
    As for category sorting... ugh! ^_^; I'm still wading through that meta page, but yeah I think that looks like what I was looking for. Thank you both for your patience with a newbie. --Eishagishi 20:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Question about pages like Isao Takahata (books). Should the titles on this page be limited to just those that aren't about a specific film? Or should any book by or about Takahata be listed, including film-specific ones?
    --Eishagishi 06:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
    It shouldn't include film-specific books. A category tree or other information marker can be placed in the introduction text to point people to the specific film/book pages.
    --LLin 22:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Question about the Nausicaa books page - should this page list both manga- and film-related titles? Sorry I haven't been as active here lately - former employer asked me to come back after four months, so I did. ^_^
    --Eishagishi 00:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I say yes. They can be differentiated with headers which will help navigation. We're all about the tortoise when it comes to additions, slow and steady!
--LLin 20:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Soundtracks

Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by starting this section. I'm getting ready to build the Pompoko soundtracks page. I take it I should use the Spirited Away page as a model? If so I'll go back and bring the Porco page in line with that format as well.
--Eishagishi 20:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

--LLin 20:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the Spirited_Away_(soundtracks) page is a good guide. Again, the non-film CDs are the biggest headache titling-wise but the ones you've created are great.
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